Latest Violent Threat from a Pro-Gun Activist

The latest violent threat received by the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV) from a pro-gun activist:



All the predictable/standard elements are here: profanity; paranoid fears about mass gun confiscation (driven by NRA fundraising material); poor grammar/spelling errors; and a warped sense of ownership of the Constitution, despite the fact that that document was drafted and ratified by Federalists. See "Setting the Record Straight: The Tea Party and the Constitutional Powers of the Federal Government" and and "The Truth About 'Second Amendment Remedies': How to Counter Insurrectionist Arguments."

It's hard to tell which incident of homicide this individual is referring to, but it could be a case in which a 20-year-old man was shot, killed and dragged into the woods.

Such threats from thugs, criminals, and insurrectionists smack of desperation and they will not stop the work of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. We are committed to building a more peaceful, nonviolent society.

Man Who Lost Son to Gun Violence Responds to Cruelty with Grace and Dignity

Recently, The Bay Citizen featured a wonderful article about gun violence survivor Griffin Dix. Tragically, Griffin lost his 15-year-old son Kenzo to gun violence in 1994 when his 14-year-old friend accidentally shot him. The boy invited Kenzo over to his house and was trying to show off his father's Beretta 92 Compact L handgun. He had removed the ammunition magazine, but wasn't aware a round was still in the chamber of the handgun. When he pulled the trigger a round fired and penetrated Kenzo's heart, killing him.

The article was upbeat, noting that, "Griffin has helped transform the dialogue about guns in California from being centered on Second Amendment rights, as it was 20 years ago, to one focused on personal tragedies and consequences."

Sadly, however, pro-gun activists have used the Comments area on the web version of the article to post unbelievably crude personal attacks against Griffin.

A pro-gun activist using the screen name "Tom P" initiated the attacks, telling Griffin:

I know it is not desirable in our society to attack victims, but I see so many things wrong with this situation that I have to do just that. As a parent, you have a responsibility to teach your children how to deal with dangerous situations, all of them. I'm guessing you're probably not a gun owner and never have been. Because your child was not around firearms in your household, you probably felt it was not neccessary to teach your son what to do should he ever encounter a firearm. That is pure and simple stupidity on your part ... It's your kind of simple minded thinking that causes these tragedies to occur. You cannot go through life ignoring facts just because you don't agree with them ... It saddens me to know that someone with your lack of depth of thought has been responsible for educating our young people. I'm thinking it's more likely than not that you're just another one of the thousands of 'educators' who pursued that career for the long vacations, decent pay and guaranteed pensions.

Tom P wasn't done though. He added, in a superfluous comment seemed designed to purely injure, this thought: "I see no sign that you take any responsibility for preparing your son for the dangers of this world. You need to get past your grief, own up to your own responsibility of not teaching your son and move on."

Next up was a pro-gun activist going by the screen name "W W." About Griffin, he commented, "He needs psychiatric help..He has become hoplophobic and concentric ... So Griffin Dix you failed as a father seek help and get over your grief...I feel for you...SEEK HELP."

Griffin's response to this, however, is what stands out the most. In the face of these vile attacks on himself and his son, he was both gracious and dignified, writing:

Thanks for the comments. In answer to a few who assumed that my son was playing with a gun, he was not. The friend he was visiting—without telling my son—went and got the gun which his father kept loaded and unlocked next to his bed for "protection." The boy thought he had unloaded the gun when he took out the loaded magazine. Then he walked back upstairs to the room where my son was, walked in and, as a childish joke, pulled the trigger. My son’s friend made a bad mistake; kids sometimes do that. They shouldn’t; but they do. If the gun had a prominent chamber-loaded indicator, the boy, when he had shot this gun with his father at the shooting range, would have seen the indicator pop up red right in front of his face whenever a bullet was put into the chamber and disappear when the round was fired. The boy would have been able to tell easily when a bullet still remained in the chamber. It is up to parents and the entire community of adults to see to it that the foreseeable mistakes of a kid do not result in a death. I am interested in preventing this kind of thing from happening ... The father of my son’s friend believed he had to store the gun loaded and unlocked because there was no other way to have the gun instantly available for use. But guns could be designed so that they can be stored safely and be available very quickly. However the gun industry resists these designs and keeps trying to put all of the blame on the gun owner (their customer) over and over and over every time. Of course the gun owner is at fault. But under the product liability laws of most states if there is foreseeable misuse of a product, the product must be designed to minimize the harm. Firearms sold to consumers could be more safely designed and still be available. This is not a "battle against guns" so much as a battle for better guns—more safely designed guns.

There's not a day that goes by that we at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV) fail to be inspired by the courage and decency of gun violence survivors.

Griffin Dix is certainly one of them.

Meet a Pro-Gun Activist: Kurt Hofmann

Kurt Hofmann is a pro-gun activist who loves to keep in touch with the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV). A former paratrooper, Hofmann became active in the gun rights movement after being paralyzed in a car accident in 2002. He is the author of the blog "Armed and Safe" and also the "St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner" with Examiner.com.

Few Americans are as passionate about "Second Amendment remedies" as Hoffman. He is the quintessential spokesman for the National Rifle Association's radical view that the amendment guarantees individuals the right to shoot and kill government officials when they deem our government has become "tyrannical." This "insurrectionist idea" has become the foundation of the modern pro-gun movement.

Hofmann does not beat around the bush, getting to the point immediately in his Twitter header:



The quote from libertarian author Claire Wolfe that Hofmann is referring to is: "America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

Recently, Hofmann has been agitated and fearful of 2010 data from the General Social Survey that shows that gun ownership in the United States is continuing to decline. In 1977, 54% of American households had a gun. Last year, that number was down to 32%. In a blog on April 29, 2011, Hofmann told our elected officials what would happen if they tried to enact new gun violence prevention laws:

If gun owners are indeed a minority in the U.S., so what? Does being in the minority make one's rights less worthy of defending? ... Promoting the notion that we live in a society where the majority rules, meaning that 51% can legitimately vote away the fundamental human rights of the other 49%, fits right into CSGV's agenda... Here's a hint, though: there are still enough of us to defend our rights, and forgetting that would be bad news for everyone involved--but worse news for those who forget than for those who are forced to remind them.

In the last line above, Hofmann links to a blog authored by Mike Vanderboegh, the former Alabama militia leader who famously ordered his readers to "Break their windows. Break them NOW" in response to health care reform legislation in March 2010:

Sadly, many responded to this call for vandalism and violence, and offices of Democratic Members of Congress across the country were attacked. One of those offices was that of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), presaging a greater act of violence to come in Tucson.

The blog that Hofmann linked to was an essay by Vanderboegh entitled, "What is a Three Percenter?" It reads as follows:

During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King's tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists ... The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act. Three Percenters say quite explicitly that we will not obey any further circumscription of our traditional liberties and will defend ourselves if attacked. We intend to maintain our God-given natural rights to liberty and property, and that means most especially the right to keep and bear arms. Thus, we are committed to the restoration of the Founders' Republic, and are willing to fight, die and, if forced by any would-be oppressor, to kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution that we all took an oath to uphold against enemies foreign and domestic ... We will not disarm. You cannot convince us. You cannot intimidate us. You can try to kill us, if you think you can. But remember, we'll shoot back. And we are not going away. Your move.

One would think that Hofmann and Vanderboegh would appreciate the fact that our system of government allows them to threaten elected officials repeatedly with relative impunity (right up until that critical threshold of calling for specific acts of violence against individuals). But then again, what Hofmann and Vanderboegh are doing has absolutely nothing to do with freedom or patriotism. By institutionalizing treason and making it a point of pride, the pro-gun movement has demonstrated how completely out of touch it is with both our Founders and modern-day America.

"The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish Government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established Government .. Your Union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and...the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the other."

- George Washington, from his Farewell Address

Pro-Gunners Fantasize About Rape of Wisconsin Woman and Daughter

Today, we share a disturbing story about two Wisconsin pro-gun activists: Sean Hobena, who goes by the sophomoric alias "Harrold Nutczak," and Madison dentist Jay Brendemuehl. Hobena is the owner/chef of The Rib Guy in Minocqua, Wisconsin.

Posting on a Facebook page entitled "Wisconsin Anti Violence Effort LIES," Hobena shared an article about a serial rapist in Milwaukee and then speculated with Brendemuehl about the potential rape of WAVE Executive Director Jeri Bonavia and her college-age daughter. The Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort (WAVE) "is Wisconsin's only statewide grassroots organization solely dedicated to reducing gun violence, injuries and deaths."



First, Brendemuehl commented about the story regarding the serial rapist by writing, "Jeri might change her mind [about advocating for tougher gun laws] if she were to get victimized..."

Hobena then responded, "Even though I hate to hear of anyone being a victim of violent crime, as much as I despise Jeri, I still would not wish that upon her or her daughter. Maybe a close-call will open their eyes to reality without either of them getting injured?"

Why pro-gun activists would possibly think it appropriate to make such comments about a mother and her daughter is beyond imagination.

Pro-Gun Activist to Woman who Lost Sister to Homicide:"Go ring your little bell you stupid ignorant c***."

Not long ago, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV) posted a blog detailing personal attacks made on Joan Peterson, a gun violence survivor from Minnesota and the author of the blog Common Gunsense. In 1992, Joan’s sister, Barbara, was shot and killed by her husband three years into divorce proceedings. He took his own life not long thereafter in a psychiatric ward.

Joan recently shared three comments left by a pro-gun activist on her (moderated) blog. "japete" is the screen name that Joan uses to respond to comments on her blog.

"Go ring your little bell you stupid ignorant cunt. We'll be busy advancing in individual states. Deep down, you see what's happening and clutch your rancid crotch stink hole in despair, huh?"



"Hey japete, why don't you clean out your disease-ridden cunt-hole? Does making everyone you walk past sick with fishy shit smell a turn-on for you? I'll bet your sister's dead crotch smells better than yours. Your husband certainly thinks so."



"Hey japete, does your dead sister like hot cock up her ass? Oh wait, I guess it doesn't matter. Perhaps I would insult you if you had the decency to publish my comments, you stupid ignorant cunt. But it is your blog. You don't publish my comments because my logic destroys your world. I guess we'll just have to continue spanking your shit covered cheeks in Congress. Fuck you and your stupid little bell."



The commenter is referring to a bell that hangs in a Memorial Garden in Lake Place Park in Duluth, Minnesota. Periodically, Joan gathers with members of Protect Minnesota (which formed when the Million Mom March Chapters of Minnesota merged with Citizens for a Safer Minnesota) and other organizations at this spot to remember victims of gun violence. Attendees are invited to ring the Memorial Bell for each loved one they have lost to gun violence.

Joan rings the bell each time for Barbara, faithfully.

Pro-Gun Activists Call Virginia Tech Shooting Survivor a "Coward"

Recently, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence documented attacks by pro-gun activists on a Minnesota survivor who lost her sister in a domestic homicide. Now, just two days later, another pro-gun activist has made an ugly attack on a gun violence survivor, in this case one who was shot multiple times during the massacre at Virginia Tech.

Commenting on the blog "Snowflakes in Hell: Firearm Policy and Politics in Pennsylvania" (which is run by Keith Milligan, an Election Volunteer Coordinator with the NRA-ILA) a pro-gun activist named Miguel Gonzalez stated the following:

Colin Goddard is now a mouthpiece for the Antin Gun movement because he is in a desperate search for the gonads he lost under a desk at Virginia Tech. It has to shame him to no end that a 76-year-old professor blocking a door with his body showed more balls than he will ever have.

To Andrew Goddard: The only roach that you know, scurried away under a desk that day at VT and is the fruit of your loins.

Colin Goddard was 21 years old on the morning of April 16, 2007 when he and the 16 other students in his class began to hear a commotion in another part of the building. Their teacher ordered them to get under their desks and asked someone to call 911. Colin was in the process of doing so when deranged student Seung-Hui Cho burst into the room and opened fire. Colin was hit four times - in both hips, the knee and the shoulder. When he dropped his phone, another student was able to cover it with her hair and complete the call, bringing police to the scene.

By his own admission, Colin will tell you that he was one of the lucky ones that day. 32 students and teachers did not survive the shooting. 16 others were wounded. Nonetheless, it took three painful months of physical therapy before Colin could even get out of a wheelchair.

Colin's father, Andrew, soon got involved with the Million Mom March, an organization with the motto, "Sensible gun laws, safe kids." After hearing about another gruesome mass shooting in Binghamton, New York in April 2009, Colin knew he had to get involved, too. He contacted the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and began interning with them. Today he serves as their Assistant Director of Legislative Affairs.

Gonzalez, for his part, is a pro-gun activist from Miami, Florida who runs the blog "Gun Free Zone." He can also be found on Twitter. And he wasn't the only pro-gun activist who made such accusations about Goddard. Several others followed his lead.

At the "Snowflakes in Hell" blog in question, a user going by the name of "Colin" added, "+1,000,000 for Miguel! My feelings exactly. I was raised to call a spade a spade, and Goddard’s definitely a coward (and a liar to boot)."

Another commenter at the blog, "cargosquid," then stated, "As for Colin Goddard, he didn’t 'freeze.' By his own words, he was hiding under a desk for at least 10 MINUTES, before the Cho showed up. He refused, consciously, to defend himself OR leave the target area. Lockdown? Screw that. What is he, a child?" "cargosquid" is a pro-gun activist from Richmond, Virginia who runs the blog, "United Conservatives of Virginia." A video of him being interviewed can be seen here.

Pro-gun activist Link Porterfield Tweeted the following at CSGV about Goddard: "Civil rights activist calls a coward a coward." Porterfield is from Boise, Idaho and runs the blog, "What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Ammunition?" His Twitter account is @peaceloveammo

Finally, Kurt Hoffman, a pro-gun activist from Southern Illinois, Tweeted at CSGV to show us a blog he wrote about Colin in which he called him "contemptibly, loathsomely evil."

Why these individuals chose to say such things about Colin and his father—whatever their policy or philosophical differences with the Goddard family might be—is beyond imagining.

[Editor's Note: Since this blog was published, Keith Milligan has changed the name of his blog from "Snowflakes to Hell" to "Shall Not Be Questioned."]

Attack on Survivor of Violence By Pro-Gun Activist

When you work in the field of gun violence prevention, you get used to seeing hostility and vitriol from those on the opposite side of the debate. But one thing you never get used to is personal attacks on victims of gun violence.

On April 11, 2011, Link Porterfield, a pro-gun activist from Boise, Idaho who goes by the screen name of "Link P" made such an attack during a Twitter exchange with the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV). Tweeting through his account @peaceloveammo, Porterfield suggested that our organization "has an undiagnosed case of Peterson syndrome." This was a derogatory reference to Joan Peterson, a gun violence survivor from Minnesota and the author of the blog www.commongunsense.com. In his Tweet, Porterfield linked to a blog by another pro-gun activist in Idaho, Joe Huffman, where Huffman attacked Joan and named what he described as a "mental defect" after her.

Our staff at CSGV knows Joan personally and has great respect for her. We replied to Porterfield that Joan is a courageous and great American.

Porterfield's response? "Peterson is no survivor of gun violence. Her sister was murdered by her criminal brother in law. She wasn't even there."

It's hard to imagine why anyone would feel compelled to make such a statement about someone whose sister was lost to gunfire.

The facts of Joan’s loss are as follows ... In 1992, Joan’s sister, Barbara, was three years into divorce proceedings with her husband. After he left bizarre messages on her answering machine, Barbara got a restraining order against him. One day, Barbara and a male friend went to her husband’s house to deliver some paperwork regarding the divorce. Her husband erupted in anger and shot both of them in cold blood, killing them. Prior to this incident, he had no violent criminal history. He ended taking his own life not long thereafter in a psychiatric ward.

Sadly, this type of incident is not uncommon in the United States. 69% of homicides in our county are committed with a gun (CDC, 2007). In 78% of cases, the perpetrator and victim know each other. In 23% of cases, they are family (FBI Uniform Crime Report, 2008).

For her part, Joan was restrained and gracious about the words of Porterfield. "Gun rights activists like to think that only ‘criminals’ shoot other people," she told us via email. "It doesn't fit with their world view when everyday people shoot other people because it makes them look bad."

That was not the end of it, however. Another pro-gun activist, Keith Milligan (AKA "Sebastian") from Pennsylvania, blogged in defense of Porterfield. In the blog he explained, "Our religion is the role firearms play within the American cultural and political framework. It is heresy to the other side, because their religion centers around victimhood."

The thought that Joan's "religion" might be acting to prevent others from experiencing the same tragedy she experienced apparently didn't cross his mind.

Death Threat from Insurrectionist

In late February, the band Steve Warner and the Rolling Coyotes posted a great music video to YouTube called "Culture of Violence." The description of the video is as follows:

How can we just sit back and watch the same scenario play out over and over? The United States is the undisputed leader among the world's most wealthy nations with more than 100,000 killed [and injured] with guns every year. We can do something to change the culture of violence. Recent events should result in a call to action for Congress to get off their duffs and act on passing sensible legislation banning assault weapons, large capacity clips and closing the gun show loophole. Your voice needs to be heard! Maybe along the way, we can help change some attitudes about violence as well.

In response to the video, the YouTube user Halo4Lyf left the following comment:

Attempt to take our (armed Americans civilians) guns and we (armed Americans civilians) will kill you. Fair warning. Those who attempt citizen disarmament are fair game. That means every single Federal agent, local LEO, oath-breaking soldier, politician, bureaucrat, and non-governmental supporter's life is fair game. Do you really want that to happen? No? Then don't advocate the infringement of our rights.

Email from Paranoid Insurrectionist

From: J.T. Geddes [chile46@yahoo.com]

To: csgv@csgv.org [Coalition to Stop Gun Violence]

Subject: When they come...

Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 5:24 AM

When they come,and they will, we the freedom loving patriotic and God fearing constitutionalst will engage as warranted.We will fight for all,for those who are fierce and strong,for those who are scared and meek and even for the like of yourselves the duped ignorant sheep like followers.

When they come.......and if you don't think it can or will happen here,just ask the Japanese Americans,ask the German Americans who were intermed during WW II. When anarchy and and chaos reigns supreme here it will happen.The US Govt. is in bed with the U.N. and the One World Order and when these tyrants bring down the their law on free people it will trigger the revolt.

I don't want it to happen,I wish our own government weren't corrupt and selling us out.I wish the current government would turn things around,do the right,moral thing,put the nation back on track,love,honour God and govern by our constitution.Sadly this will not be the case and when they come for the last of the rock of freedom which we stand on then we will engage and defend our way of life to the end.

So no I will not donate to your kill a gun fund but I will fight for freedom both mine and yours.That is demanded of every freedom loving law abiding American.

CSGV Mailbag

Here at CSGV, we are frequently reminded by gun rights activists that they care about lives lost to gun violence, too. We have been blessed to receive regular communications from firearm enthusiasts who have serious, thoughtful ideas about how to create a more peaceful America. And with April 19 celebrations in full swing among those who understand that God granted them their Second Amendment rights, our mailbox was more full than ever!

We heard from those who were ready to help the survivors of Columbine by informing them that guns had nothing to do with the tragedy...

From: Bishop_Dave@comcast.net
Subject: Gun violence
Date: April 21, 2010

I have heard Mr. Mauser's plea to join this organization because he lost his son in the Columbine tragedy on a radio spot. It is so frustrating that Mr. Mauser seems to still ignore two factors relating to Columbine. Yes the two killers had guns, however they had made home made bombs and placed them throughout the high school, which then completly neutralized the SWAT teams efforts for about 3 hours. This allowed the two killers time to go through Columbine grid by grid to find their victims. Secondly, there have been two school shootings in Colorado within the last couple years. In both cases there were no explosive devices, but mass amounts of ammo being carried by the shooters. In one case, a man tackled the shooter after two shots rang out and the event ended. In another case the shooter was cornered, and shot one victim after being cornered. Though both are tragedies, in one of those two cases there was no loss of life. The one factor that changed the outcomes, explosive devices !! That's it. So rather than continue your misguided assult on the 2nd Amendment, and filing frivolous lawsuits against gun makers, which I realize helps keep you damn lawyers rich beyond belief because you snatch 40% up front ! Do something worthwhile, and go after all the bomb making crap readily available via the internet. That is where the two Columbine killers exceeded all other school shooters. Shut down your anti-gun operation and go after the internet bomb making recipies readily available there !!

Dave Bishop

We heard from those who evoked the elocution of our Founders…

From: itchitup@gmail.com
Subject: Horwitz: "Our founders got rid of violence with Constitution"
Date: April 19, 2010

[Coalition to Stop Gun Violence Executive Director] Josh Horwitz, you are a cock sucking, cunt. The founding fathers offered the constitution/bill of rights in exchange for our God given inalienable rights, to form a greater good. Anytime the government becomes "intolerable", we have a DUTY to ... History proves that the longer the train of intolerable abuse, the more difficult and violent the struggle. Stop sucking Pelosi/Napolitano cock and get off your knees. Millions of strong fighters have died for freedom and we are left with weak metro fucking pissasses like you...

Michael Mitchell

We heard from men of few words…

From: redneck@rcn.com
Subject: gaynes
Date: April 19, 2010

homo

We heard from those with a beautiful vision for our country...

From: info@republicofarizona.com
Subject: Thank God
Date: April 16, 2010

One other issue .................. thank God the founding fathers of this nation did not have to contend with the likes of you regarding our over throw of the repressive British regime. There does come a time when violence is the only answer. After all, how do you plan on ever disarming the millions of gun owners that will never allow ANY government, foreign or domestic, to take our firearms ......... period? When asking nicely doesn't work, then what? A citation? A lecture?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Steve Grant
Republic of Arizona

From: chanbates@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Political Violence is Not an American Value
Date: March 31, 2010

Imagine a future free of criminals and war. Then imagine a future free from gun violence. You have one vivid, ridiculous imagination. Until you and your ilk provide all of us with 100% security from such threats (and I believe you will be totally unpersuasive with criminals and religious fanatics from overseas), I will preserve my own life, the lives of my loved ones, and any other innocent person—including you—from the evil in the world, and I will probably use a firearm to do it, violently.

Chan Bates

We heard from attorneys for the National Rifle Association who think that Google doesn’t exist...

From: cbmonfort@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Let's Leave "The Wild West" in the Past
Date: March 25, 2010

I'm interested in making a donation to your organizationm though I do have a couple of preliminary questions. Do you think all of the states that have shall issue CCW policies have become the wild wild west? Do they have higher violent crime rates than states that hardly issue CCW permits? I'd be interested to hear your responses to these questions before I make any donations to your organization. Thank you!

Clint B. Monfort

We heard from lawnmower salesmen...

From: Bullseye5477
Subject: What loophole?
Date: February 14, 2010

What the fuck does a gun show have to do with anything. What's next? The guvment tellin' me I can't sell my lawnmower to someone because they might take it home and run over their kids foot?

We heard from Mondays with Mike fan Larry Mattera...

From: matteralarry@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Looking Forward to a New Year

You suck ass! I want all your funding to dry up for my Christmas present! I wont miss Mondays with fatass.

Larry Mattera

We heard from those who understand the public health threat presented by caffeine...

From: izaktaylor@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Todays email Major Nidal Malik Hasan
Date: November 19, 2009

so allegedly Major Nidal Malik Hasan went crazy 10 years after the permit. he had traumatic violent experiences that alter his perception of reality. The concealed weapon permit had nothing to do with it whatsoever. You could claim he was the 5 person whote drank pepsi that commited a mass murder as well, it just wouldn't serve your limited political agenda.

Isaac Taylor

We heard from winners...

From: forestofdeadtrees@sbcglobal.net
Re: New Blog on Protester with AR-15 Assault Rifle
Date: August 28, 2009

You are a loser.

Sincerely – Jeremy Parish

We heard from those who were eager to express condolences...

From: tlooft@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: CSGV Statement on the Passing of Senator Kennedy
Date: August 26, 2009

About damn time that old SOB kicked off, a great day for USA!!!

Terry Looft

We heard from those who are particularly concerned about the eight children and teens who die every day in the U.S. from gun violence...

From: tomfinnegan13204@yahoo.com
Subject: Violent Hangun Deaths in Children
Date: August 13, 2009

Including suicides in the CSGV's blanket statement of 8 deaths a day is certainly misleading. Many youth bent on killing themselves will surely find another means to do so if a gun is not available. In fact, according to the wisqars report on the CDC site, almost 30% more youths who commit suicide use a means other than guns to do it (535 gun suicides versus 761 suicides that do not involve guns)

The reason I brought up gang violence in our conversation was that most hardcore juvenile gang-bangers have been involved in an extremely violent lifestyle for many of their formative years. Is this tragic? Certainly. But your site, as evidenced by the cutesy little crayon drawing of innocent little children, next to the erroneous statistic of 8 gun deaths a day, is obviously meant to bring out an emotional response in those who this portion of the site is meant for. It is not based on truth or reason. And reason indicates that even with more stringent gun laws, criminals will still get guns. Ergo, gang members will still kill each other.

Even if you think that it is valid to keep suicides and gang-related deaths in your total number, what you report and what the total numbers actually are "do not jive." The true number then would be 6.3 deaths a day, not 8.. This does not surprise me though. The vast majority of what passes for intellectual rigor among Liberals is based on emotive response, not logic and reason.

Tom Finnegan
Syracuse, NY 13204

And finally, we heard from someone who momentarily forgot about that peace thing...

From: MurphyMURPH1176@aol.com
Subject: gun violence
Date: August 2, 2009

love to see evening news reports , include the number of shootings that occur each and every day in the united states

richard